A player going over 21 automatically loses. If you play blackjack for recreational purposes using fake money, it is quite legal and you should be free from any legal persecution. I would also be afraid of the casino having my credit card or other banking information. Visit SrBenelli photo album. Originally Posted by Mickey D. We also offer pages on Canadian online blackjack and Australian Online Blackjack. Yes, there is nothing illegal about playing online blackjack for real money, even if you live in the USA.
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Wow that is a monster. Even a small one is very lethal, but that beast is a leg breaker for sure. I can tell you from experience that they aren't worth a flip. When I was a young LEO 30 million years ago, I bought a 10 inch texan lead filled sap to carry in my back pocket on duty. One night my partner and I got into a brawl at a bar and I chased a dirtbag outside that had popped me upside the head as we was cuffing his friend. He was backing away from me when he backed into a tree.
He turned his head to see what he backed into and I hit him upside the head with the sap twice. He turned and just looked at me and the fight was on. During the rolling around on the ground fight, he got the sap away from me and took a swing.
I caught it with my left hand breaking a finger. I was in the process of unsnapping my service weapon when my partner saw me from across the field and fired a shot in the air. The shot scared the guy and he ran off with my sap.
I never bothered to chase him. Never bought or carried another sap. Bought a shock baton after that. In most areas saps, black jacks.
As for mere ownership that depends on your local laws. If you want one just to have one in a collection how is any L. Properly used a sap or preferably a black jack should be a fight stopper every time. Just remember if you take a swat at someone with one you are using a dangerous and deadly weapon, so make sue you are justified in doing so.
I was trained, years ago, you don't hit a suspect anywhere above the elbow, unless your life is in danger NOW. Last edited by old bear; at I enjoyed the story about the blackjack but have to disagree, with respect. I carried one for years until my agency banned them and it saved my bacon on more than one occassion.
Originally Posted by cmort Last edited by ispcapt; at I've been told that they are regarded as a firearm when it comes to carrying. I live in WV and haven't seen anything concerning thier legality when I looked it up.
I'm not looking to carry one, but if I run across one in a trade, I'd like to make sure it's legal to own. View Public Profile Find all posts by J. Find all threads started by J. In my state, they are legal to own, but not carried concealed. It is state by state, and even jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I personally liked mine, when we were allowed to carry them.
I really liked the sap gloves can't carry them anymore either - Sigh. Funny though, I'm alowed to carry a mini Monadnock Defender since it is considered an expandable batton; it fits a "sap pocket" pretty well and can be used like a sap. Last edited by ASA; at Originally Posted by ispcapt. IL LEOs can legally carry saps, blackjacks, etc. However, violating dept policy is not a criminal offense. A person cannot be sent to jail for violating dept policy. They could be disciplined up to termination but it's not a criminal matter.
The example you gave has nothing to do with either the statute or violating dept policy but the use of excessive force. A completely different matter entirely and unrelated to the weapon. Violating dept policy is not a federal crime either.
What you are describing is a Civil Rights violation which is a federal crime. The type of weapon used is irrelevant. It's the violation of civil rights by use of excessive force that causes actions. That could be by hands or other personal object and doesn't matter the type of weapon used. I started as a cop in At that time lot of the older guys around here still carried saps or blackjacks in the sap pocket of their uniform pants and did so until about '84 or '85 when such weapons were specifically prohibited by policy.
Most of the guys used them as a backup impact weapon, in case they bailed out of the car in a hurry and forgot their straight baton. I bought a Bucheimer "Convoy" blackjack and another model with a lighter weight.
One of my older mentors who worked for the Sheriff's Department told me to use the lighter one. I carried it as a backup until policy changed. This same guy had been in a battle with a drunk sometime in the late 70s and ended up hitting the guy along side the head with the edge of a flat sap by accident and just about tore the suspect's ear off.
No lasting repercussions from that, but he immediately switched to carrying a lighter weight round blackjack with the spring as a result. I saw him break a guy's collar bone with it in the parking lot of a road house one night when we went to a fight at bar time. I still think a lighter weight blackjack may have utility in some applications. I traded another old timer a black GI wool sweater for his sap gloves. Only used them once, breaking up a fight in a parking lot outside a bar.
A strong punch to the sternum stopped a guy who wanted to fight me dead in his tracks. Which was good, because I'm a big boy and he was about the same size and a lot more muscular and certainly meaner and I think I would've been in trouble if he'd have gotten his hands on me or landed a few punches.
I guess I might need to add to my story that the bar we was in was know for its drugs back in the 70's and the guy was probably loaded with Qualudes. I did carry a 5 cell Kel-light that worked pretty good on ones head when needed but once tied into a guy selling Qualudes out of his vehicle on the side of the road. When the fight started I had him in a headlock with me beating him in the head with the light with no effect.
There was so much blood on the ground that one would have through there was a hog being killed. A couple of airmen from Ft Rucker came and helped me hold him down to get the cuffs on him. I still have his mugshot in my scrapbook. He looked a conehead with bandages from the ears up. The Blackjack on the right is a "Convoy". Yes it is "Effective".
The punishment was of an administrative nature, separate from his Federal prosecution for civil rights violations. The Barnes and Noble book weights are a thinly disguised leather sap of an older style.
Legal in NY but don't try to take it on an airplane. A librarian got taken into custody for carrying on an airline. I don't know the final resolution of that case. My sister bought me one--she was completely naive and thought it was a good book weight. Originally Posted by sipowicz. Last edited by Mickey D; at This is my key chain fob; paracord braided over a 2 ounce egg sinker.
I also have a Texan like the one bottom right; and something similar, but not matching one of the smaller ones in the top row: Make your own sap perfectly legal until used.
Buy several rolls of Saran Wrap. Start by rolling a piece into the smallest tube you are able. Add more wrap until it is about 1" thick. This makes a perfectly excellent sap. You can peel off the bloody parts after each use and still have a nice clean surface. This is an amazingly damaging cudgle. You can explain its existence by saying your collect your old Saran Wrap for re-cycling.
Indeed, if you pack a lunch you can make yours from the used wrap. Originally Posted by Mickey D. I'm surprised LASD allows to possess, as per pc they are illegal to possess. No reference to LE exemption. Ok, I'm a SAP! Last edited by sipowicz; at I did note what you said. You somehow tried to link dept policy as if that had any relationship to the CR porosecution. Federal prosecution has nothing to do with dept policy.
If a LEO is convicted of action then getting "dinged" by a dept for violating policy is the least of his problems. If he did federal time then violating policy is not even on the scope because he wouldn't be a LEO.
What did CPD do? Did they give him a 30 day suspension while he was serving his 3 yrs in fed pen? As for their effectiveness, saps are mean mothers I would not want to be hit with one I have carried a beavertail sap and a spring sap in plain clothes but I was never confident in how hard to "slap" and when necessary, only tried to " tap" with the edge of the beavertail. I never tried to hit with a spring sap 'cause I was afraid I might cause a skull fracture.
I was out on a stolen car at Ft. I had the light on my right shoulder and was illuminating the perps Drivers License when he got "squirrelly" with me and tried to"push me off"[quess who was packing]I snapped my wrist forward and layed that Kel-lite upside the left side of his head. I wasn't trying to crush his skull and thought at the time it was an "attention getting" tap. Well, the knurling and weight of that Kel-lite,[and maybe a little adrenaline] peeled a 3"x 4"patch of his "rug' off to the bone and nearly tore his left ear half off!
If you've ever seen a head wound you know how much blood can flow. The "brother' had a very interestning scar to show off when he got to the Ft Leavenworth Confinement Facility. I'm not sure if he, or I,were more scared! I was afraid he was going to bleed to death!
At that time , I finally understood the Military Police doctrine that a night stick is a punching ,thrusting weapon NOT a swinging baseball bat. Cwo4usc, that braided paracord looks great.
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